Poaching or feeding family

[scooter]

I reposted this as I'm interested in the responses about this...

This is now my question, so if you want to throw heat at someone about it...send it my way! :laugh:

If someone you knew was broke and starving...they went out and shot a couple of deer out of season to feed their family...Do you report him? (I think that was the question...)

[scooter]

ACARCHER's RESPONSE:

If I saw him taking an animal out of season..... I would report him period!....

You do not need to break law to eat!......

is it OK for him to steal your bow and sell to feed his family?

[russ]

First of all not all people have easy access to the food bank and secondly there are people out there that would rather starve or poach than take a handout.

[sledder]

I wonder how many animals are lost due to a poor placed shots or spoilage of meat left in the bush to long. Would it really hurt if there was a family that was starving to let them shoot an animal for food. I agree with russ, some folks are to proud to save food stamps or take food from a food bank. I would like to think that a starving family that illegally hunts would not take advantage of anything but to feed themselves. And how many animals would they need? Not as many as are left in the bush
Just my two cents.

Sledder

[Ducker]

This is tough situation. There are a lot of variables that need to be taken into consideration, and who are we to judge the criteria that are acceptable to break the law. We need to consider the persons background (heritage) and where they are currently living, what events have led him and his family to be in this impoverished state. Is the family employed, what do they spend their income on (necessities of life or addictions?). I believe that every one in society is entitled to the basic needs (food, shelter, etc), but the means by which we acquire these needs must done according social norms. Sometimes we all have to swallow our pride and accept help in some way, but I am in no position to make judgement on someone for their behaviors, however I feel that I am obliged to act on behalf of our province and would have to report him, even if he is starving. On the flip side, I really feel that the animals do not belong to the government, but to all mankind, and if he needs one or two to feed a hungry family, than who am I to stop him. It really is a catch 22, and with out all the information, none of us can accurately make a decision that will not impact the rest of this persons life or his family's lives.

Just my 2 cents about social justice.

Ken

[Dillershortbow]

I think most of you guys on this board are not old enough to remember any hard times. I had a young family in 1981 if anyone remembers the interest rate went to 24%. the oilpatch was completly shutdown no lumbering in bc. i shot 4 does out of season that winter to feed my family. Anyone who is able to shoot and says they would not have i would say bull. i would in a heart beat again and i sleep with a clear constance. although i hope never to have to again.

[Mikey]

I personally agree with ducker re: employed ...where money has gone etc etc....

If I were broke and couldnt feed my family I would find a way ...If that way included taking a Doe without a license ... I would do it.

However that said ...if said poacher was taking a large bull or buck for trophy .. then yes I would report them. I hold the same ideals when it comes to Native hunting rights .. I get mad when they go after the big animals ... when a Doe or a cow will feed their family just fine.

Now consider this. In the province of Alberta it costs over 350 dollars a day (the price has probally gone up by now) as of august 2005 to house an incarcerated person in general population of an Alberta Correctional institution. That was an average.

350 bucks a day of taxpayers money ...or letting a doe go .... average Time served by poachers is 3 months ...90 x 350 =31,500 dollars ...

Just something to think about

[trenh]

Great point Mikey...

However, how many people stop and ask questions if they see someone taking an animal out of season (I wouldn't stop and ask, "Are you just shooting that to feed your family?")... Not many, Most of us would report it.. It is the ethical thing to do... That is what I would do, no questions asked I would phone in what I saw...

ANyway, just thought I would jump into the conversation...

[Dillershortbow]

Right how in these boom times there is no reason to shoot a animal out of the normal season. So if i saw an animal shot out of season i would turn them in every time.

[acearchery]

Just another thought!.....

Selling your rifle or bow would get you 1/2 a beef!....... temporarily just to get you out of hard times!....

Poaching is Poaching Is Poaching...... Taking an animal out of season is illegal... and if you get caught you will get punished!......

If I shot a rapist in cold blood is it still murder?

Right or wrong on this.... I would hope if a friend of mine had to resort to poaching...... to live!..... I would hope he would come to me first and give me opportunity to show why I am a friend!.....

And yes I remember hard times.... early 80's were tough on farmers too!.... 24% operating loans...fertiliser... and fuel costs!..... we had legal meat in freezer to get us through!.....

Just to reiterate my first post!...

If I saw it I would report it!......

[russ]

Just another thought!.....

Selling your rifle or bow would get you 1/2 a beef!....... temporarily just to get you out of hard times!....



Uhm, yeah that's one helluva solution. Take away the tools that feed your family. What's next sell the family car that could get you to work?

How 'bout this, a lot of down & outers cry the blues about no money food over a cigarette & beer. Maybe they need a bit of deep introspective thought regarding priorities.

Personally I never tell someone to sell assets to get by. That keeps them down in the long run, and that's not a good thing either.

[acearchery]

Many times people use excuse as a reason!.....

To me we are talking about breaking the law..... regardless of reason or excuse!....

Hey if I am poaching to feed family..... I get caught.... there are consequences........ that is Justice!....

The same people who allow this to happen without consequences.......... quite often in the next breath complain about our pansy Judicial system......

It is a slippery slope my friends!......

If you have to do it to feed your family..........The 3S rule comes to mind. and don't advertise....

Poaching is a pet peeve of mine because most of the people who do it......have no excuse or reason...............

I had neighbours who supported their family through poaching...... mainly because they were to lazy to get off of their @ss and work....... They would sit on welfare and poach..... then when they would get caught trespassing, or poaching their excuse was.... i am just trying to feed my family!.......

It would be very few people who this would really apply to.... special cases....circumstances and even then only for a period of time.....

And DILLER YOU POACHER!.........I would certainly not advertise the fact......

You know I got raked over for shooting wolves to protect cattle which was our livelyhood...... Which is 100% legal and justifiable...... but it is perfectly fine to poach which is illegal for the same reason!....

Oh right!........Wolves are cute, cuddly wonderful things.......

In my family history..... there were a few occupations.... game warden, soldier, executioner..................outlaw....and poacher!....

[Taxman]

Based on the question, no I would not report it.

If my life ever became that low, I would probably do it as well.

My dad's company was on strike for 7 1/2 months once when all we were was a single income family.

We ate our new living room furniture, we ate our new car and went seven more years before recovering.

At the time, my dad bought and filled two moose tags and only because he hunted did we get the bountiful food we did.

So, someone else, more down on their luck than that described above, no I would not call.

Mike

[acearchery]

If someone is breaking the law I don't care why!.....

They are breaking the law and get caught they should face the consequences..........

I am a good friend to my friends and a better enemy to my enemies

Poachers are an enemy......to us as Hunters.....

They hurt our opportunity, heritage and reputation.
Not reporting crime means you condone it!....

WOW am I cranked up!.................!:D

How many are agoinst the Interim metis Hunting Agreeement which allows people with a hunting heritage to hunt for food!.....LEGALLY!..... yet you are willing to allow someone to do it illegally

[trenh]

Al

You need to calm down, people are expressing what they feel about the question, I think you should slow down on the know it all attitude.. Until you are in the situation, which makes people poach to feed their family, I don't think you can say for sure you wouldn't do it... I can say easily right now that I wouldn't do it, but I have never gotten to such desperation to need to do it..

Anyway... my two cents... :wacko:

[russ]

How many are agoinst the Interim metis Hunting Agreeement which allows people with a hunting heritage to hunt for food!.....LEGALLY!..... yet you are willing to allow someone to do it illegally


Hold it right there buckwheat. Alberta has been in compliance with the metis Charter rights since 1992. It's the extension of the rights beyond the scope of what the charter covered that everyone is up in arms over.

[Dillershortbow]

Do poachers hurt your heritage AC i think not . You must of come from a land baron in jolly old england . My ancesters here in canada all lived on wild meat right up to the 1960s . so my heritage is shoot if you need it. Now in this present time i don`t think anyone has to shoot anything out of season to live. I just hope you never have to anything like that to feed your three boys. you might fall off your lofty perch.

[Mikey]

How many are agoinst the Interim metis Hunting Agreeement which allows people with a hunting heritage to hunt for food!.....LEGALLY!..... yet you are willing to allow someone to do it illegally

Easy there Princess ... you say we are walking a fine line .... thats is a hair line ....

I am not against the IMHA in principal ... I am against it when its abused .... ie: High powered Weapons and after bucks/ bulls ... the spirit of the agreement is traditional use wapons for family food only....and Does IMHO will do

And personally I beleive that the majority of people here would agree with me

And allan ask yourself ... what is your tradition and culture that says you can only hunt from sept to november

last year my tradition stated that I can only use my rifle in the month of November ... this year my Tradition states I can use it from september till january, So please dont go spouting off about Tradition and Culture when all your really talking about is regional laws.

If I drivin down an FSR and see a dude with a New Duramax hammer a doe ... ya I would report him ... If I driving down that same FSR and see a dude on an old mtn bike with a doe over his back pedalin to get home .... I would probally bend down and tie up my boots. and quiet honestly the dude that out to truley feed his family ...you woudnt see on a major FSR anyway.

[Mikey]

whats that old saying ... give a fish ... teach a fish??? ...something about feeding for a day ... and feeding for a lifetime .... ????

I wonder how that goes again ...

honestly tho ... I have sold stuff to get by some hard times ... gotten payday loans a time or two to ..."get by" and wouldnt reccomend it to anyone

Thankfully I have never been in situation where I could not get work ...hell in Highschool I flipped burgers at Wendys .... if need be i would do that again to put food on my table and provide a roof for my family... I think we all would ..... I am the first to help anyone the best way I can ... I have been known to live in overdraft for a week to help out a friend because he was gonna lose his apartment (long story ...but boils down to a doctor messing up paper work)

yes in this day and age there are other programs than one can benifit from ... but that said there are still alot of people starving out there ...youve all seen the commercials that say food or shelter ...200 000 canadians cant afford both .... if some of those are willing to work for their food like the work involved in harvesting a doe for meat, cutting it them selves etc... cause they cant afford a butcher anyway ....

I see benifits ... In the praires for example it would curb the cases of CWD by thinning the herd as opposed to having 10000 animals culled ... that can be put to good use

[acearchery]

Nope a clan from good ol Scotland but that is besides the point....

Look at the fallout from bambi's mother being shot!.... It is a frikkin cartoon and look how it harmed our image......

Bambi's mom... shot in the spring!..... that was work of a poacher!..... yet people look at hunter's in that light!..... That hurts our heritage....or image!.....or reputation!.....

Traditionally animals are harvested in the fall because that is when they are fattest and provide the most nourishment. A nursing doe in spring hardly is worth eating!......

and in case you can't read between lines!....

I said!.... i would report it if I saw it!.....

It's the extension of the rights beyond the scope of what the charter covered that everyone is up in arms over.

Is poaching any different..... it is bending the existing laws and people are in arms over that!.....

What about shooting a ranchers cow to feed your family.... if you had no other option!..... is that OK too!......

this is a fuzzy line!...... I choose to look at it in Black and white.... Law says no.... I will not do it!..... Laws are necessary for protection of us all.

How often do you think that there is no other real option than to poach....
Granted today there are lots of options...... In past... That is in past.... In future who knows!......

I just feel that we as hunters need to ensure we do our best to ensure that wildlfe managment laws are upheld for our future!......

I have been in tough situations where I have had to do things that other people would feel I was going to hell for!......

I have seen famine, war, atrocities....... and it all started with greed, disregard for others rights and hate...... When you see a man walk up to a weak, starving child and take away his bowl of food to eat....... and can do nothing because I am bound by law do you think I have ever wanted to break the boundary!.....

It would be a rare situation in our country that would justify poaching.......

We are losing seasons one animal at a time!..... Caribou, Grizzly Bear, what is next?..... Poaching is an unknown element in our wildlife management scheme..... Better to refrain from it altogether....

This is a moral dilemma and is my opinion and I have given my reasons for the opinion!.....

Of course I could have taken the easy way out!....... and said no..... but when have I ever done that!...... and each one is a case by case basis!......

The pot won't boil unless stirred!.....

[Dillershortbow]

really ac this is about the most heated topic i have read on the bowzone in a long time. haha

[russ]

AC - Sometimes your pontifications go beyond the scope of reality.

[acearchery]

Russ... be specific what part is not real!....

[acearchery]

.....and if the day comes I have to fall off my lofty anti-poacher perch......

I will go all the way baby!.... it will be a trophy elk or sheep in Jasper.... those babies are FAT!.....

[Grunter]

Are you kidding me AC?!? YOU just contracdicted everything you've stood for in this post Allan, what gives?

BTW - it was Bambi's mother that got shot and it was winter...

[acearchery]

Funny... there was snoe on ground.... But they were eating fresh green Grass!....IT WAS SPRING!... go rent it and see.....


Have you heard of SARCASM!.....

Poaching is killing animals out of season whatever the reason....

[Travski]

ok just my 2 cents

I personally dont care if the person needed food to make a go of it go to it if they could not get it themselves I would help them if I could. That being said poaching is wrong as we all know it is, but when it comes down to it if everyone was in the same situation and their livelihood of the livelihood of there kids were at stake everyone would do it. AC if you tell me that you lost your job and could not feed your family and your 3 boys were starving and you could not find a job you would not shoot a deer, I call bullS#$t I know you well enough to know that you would do what ever it took to keep them kids safe and fed and well.

I know you dont approve but under certain conditions things change. I dont approve of it either but if it was essential for survival you bet your @ss I would do it in a heartbeat, Of course after I shot and ate my 500 head of cattle but still if push came to shove I would do what i had to do to survive as anyone else would do.


If you are going to report it because it is illegal what about when you are speeding down the highway? Is that not illegal also? Do you not report that because you are speeding? There is a diff Speeding down the highway could end yours or someone elses lives, shooting a doe or fawn for food could end up saving a couple lives

Just my thought
Travis

[acearchery]

Guys....

The reason I would report it is that the actual odds of someone being that down and out are extremely low. In today's world if someone is that down and out it is because of bad decisions, personal problems brought about by bad decisions etc.... or even refusal to change, move, do what is required.....

The same reason I refuse to give pan-handlers change......

We all control our destiny and we can feed ourselves in today's world without breaking the law....

I am a cold, cruel, person!......

Besides Travis if my boys were starving!..... I have enough friends I am sure that I could trade one of my bows for a fence jumper of yours!....... which is legal!...

Now if it was back to the 30's where times were different....... and the odds of someone being down and out were higher.... maybe it would be different!.....

OH....and I don't speed!.....

[dropzone]

AC.

why are you watching bambi? I know you have children and so do I but I have never watched bambi with such detail. :lol:

[russ]

DZ, I'd be more concerned if he were letting his children watch that misguided crap.

[acearchery]

You know......a simple cartoon had huge impact on our sport.... media perception is a huge issue!.....

In my fire managment course we saw two vido clips.... one from the fire in bambi and one from a fire in the Lion King!.....In one fire was perceived as a destroyer.... the other as a renewer!..... I know this is a bit of a digression but......

perception affects reality.;........

I feel that if we are perceived as seeing situations where we condone harvesting animals illegally for the best of intentions.... the general public may not see it as such!....

[Dillershortbow]

AC you are kinda like the everready bunny :hump: but now you are dead wrong the public would be far more excepting to you killing a deer to feed your kids. then to shoot one for the sport or horns. at any season legal or not.

[acearchery]

U2 Diller

I agree with you!

50 years ago.... we did not have to worry about perception Today we do.....

From my IBEP course...
20% of public hunt, 20% are anti-hunting, 60% are neither pro or anti..... as long as it is done properly (I include legally in there)

the 20% anti are against legal hunting.... evry percent of change our way or their way could have huge impact....

And on more question... Diller when you were young what was it like to hunt dinosaurs!:goat:

[Dillershortbow]

Ha Ha those megasoarassrekzs where buggers to kill. Where do you find 20% of the population that hunt ?

[Mikey]

honestly if it came down to it ... I could give two craps what the media and public perception had to say if I had to shoot a deer to keep my family alive..... It surprises me that the topic even came up

[ACC3-28]

If I caught someone shoot a doe or a small buck for meat and I knew that they were doing it to feed their family because they were going through hard times and couldn't afford the meat I wouldn't report them. Instead I would pull up and help the guy get it gutted out and loaded into his truck.

If someone doesn't like that I don't care!

You show me an old farmer who hasn't shot an animal pre 1950's to feed their family and I'll show you a lying curd dog. Where the heack would someone think the meat on the table in farming houses came from then. My family no exception in those days. Just because most people don't have to do it anymore doesn't mean that some people don't need to.

[Travski]

If I caught someone shoot a doe or a small buck for meat and I knew that they were doing it to feed their family because they were going through hard times and couldn't afford the meat I wouldn't report them. Instead I would pull up and help the guy get it gutted out and loaded into his truck.

If someone doesn't like that I don't care!

You show me an old farmer who hasn't shot an animal pre 1950's to feed their family and I'll show you a lying curd dog. Where the heack would someone think the meat on the table in farming houses came from then. My family no exception in those days. Just because most people don't have to do it anymore doesn't mean that some people don't need to.


i agree with you 100% Derek I would do the same

[acearchery]

You would be accessories to a crime.... Poachers! All of you!....:tongue_na

What are odds that someone really actually needs to do this in Today's world....
1930.... 90 some %
Today <1% so that means that if someone is doing it then you have a greater than 99% chance of poaching unreasonably

the 20% pro-hunting stat comes from the IBEP program.....

In today's world few people would have to do this......

Yet I can get slammed for shooting wolves legally!..................3-28.....

Back in those days game regulation were not nearly as stringent either!......

Are you sure y'all are not from Newfoundland?

[acearchery]

Right or wrong,
legal or illegal.........
I keep it a simple world.......

Poaching for food when no other option is available..... in most people's minds is not wrong but the chance of this being necessary in today's world is almost nil.....

Now the question was would i report someone poaching if I thought they needed it for food!.... My answer is Yes!.....

Why because the odds are that I am going to catch someone poaching that falls in the necessary category.... less than almost nil.....

I feel it is my duty to introduce them to the justice system and let them sort it out!.... If not I am condoning taking an animal out of season!....

Never judge your enemy..... Leave it to a higher power..... Just arrange the meeting!......

Now I will put in a totally ridiculous scenario!....

Everyone is in the boat that they need the meat to survive.... We have agreements in place where if we all agree to shoot bucks so that population is not as severely affected and to allow our quarry to raise young and agree to harvest in fall, and someone breaks the rules they are taking food out of our mouths and decreasing from common good............Oh wait.........That is the whole point for game laws!......

Poaching is stealing, Is there a right time to steal?

Travis and Derek..... would you help someone gut, skin and load one of your cows that they shot becuase they were starving!?

I know I am on losing end of this and emotions govern many people.....

But would you poach around me? If we go hunting will you bend the rules? and Vice versa.... If i ever get caught poaching you guys would throw the book and anything else at me....

Now if I was in a position and decided to poach to feed my family.... I would
1) make sure that nobody saw me
2) ensure that it was really necessary and that no other option was avalable....
3) Know who to call to help me!.....:tongue_na


and




























4) make sure there were no spiders around...................:tongue_na

[scooter]

spiders

http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2005/12/17/close-up-tarantula.jpg
+
http://extracine.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/spiderpig.PNG
=

[dropzone]

Scooter that is funny and scary in a morbid sort of way. Hard to tell which one was Al.

Now as for shooting an animal out of season. Sure would if a family was in need of it. I guess some privileged people never had to use the system to get food for the table. Now as for shooting cattle in someone elses pasture is considered stealing as the cow belongs to someone else and is considered lively hood not the same as deer.

Granted shooting a deer out of season is illegal but so is what the Government is doing to us.

The system people say that are in place for the under privileged is not working out. I have seen allot of single parents in Alberta that has had no service other then what the community has given. hence deer meat.

AC is right about it being wrong, so be it, but common sense should prevail when a family is hungry.

[acearchery]

I did not state I was wrong.... just not in agreement with majority........

All wild game is held in common in Canada.....

Now in Britain..... game belongs to the landowner!....

You know the people who complain most about being under priveleged sure spend a lot of time on their butt complaining about it!.......

You want to eat.... work! There is no excuse for not having a job in Alberta Today!...

Poaching is work!......

[Travski]

AC

If it came down to a person needing my cow for their survival I would with out a question butcher the damn thing and give it to them. that is the way I was brought up, is it wrong maybe in someones eyes but in mine not a chance. My dad taught us this and I will teach mine that also. I have the opportunity to harvest 17 deer this year with all the extra cwd tags going on here. Do I need them? NO Is there families here in my local town that can use the meat damn straight there is. Will I give it to them with out question yes. Everyone of them are working and are not hardly making it some of them are sending 2 crackers with a cheese slice to school for their kids. Do they ask for help ? Not a chance to proud, will they accept some meat? I hope so. Would I help each one of them poach an animaltokeep their kids fed? in a heartbeat.

You stated that in the 30's this might have had to happen to survive. What is the diff between now and the 30's? ok price of bread was 2cents a loaf,today 3bucks loaf. Beef was 10cents a pound,today anywhere from 5.20 -$10 a pound. Yes things have changed but so has the cost of living and exspenses from then to now.

not saying you are wrong it is your right to do as you please, but remember do onto others as you would have them do onto you. one day the shoe might be on the other foot and it might not fit so well.

Travis

[acearchery]

Travski... I know you are a generous person.....and you would share in a heartbeat...

But if you saw someone shoot one of your cows, drive out to pick it up......

Would you stop to ask questions..... or would you report it..... or shoot first!.....

You know if it comes down to a pride thing..... hey if I had to ask people for food, go to a food bank,.... etc... i would do that before I would poach!...

Heck I would sell some guns, bows etc... if need be.....

people talk about being too proud to beg and would rather poach.... and when I stick to legal high ground I get slammed!..... But the person too proud to ask.... and poaches instead....

Well i gues they could eat their pride!.....

Poaching would have to be the last resort!.....

As I reported the person.... I would remind them that they only had to ask and I would have helped them out!..... Or if I noticed it before hand.... maybe something would appear in their mailbox or on their doorstep!.....

Very similar in principle but I put poaching one further step away than others as an option!.....

So if we are in agreement with subsistance hunting............. Why are so many opposed to the IMHA..... Because of the potential for abuse.....

Yet someone can subsistence poach and it is fine......but illegal!..... I see the same potential for abuse and I look at law as being black and white!....

If I get caught poaching.... Then I must face the consequences regardless of the reason!....

[dropzone]

(Yet someone can subsistence poach and it is fine......but illegal!..... I see the same potential for abuse and I look at law as being black and white!....)

Apparently RED you cant see, eh AC.




The law also states that if you speed you get punished, but as being a retired Military Police I gave the benefit of the dought and let it slide if need be. Even let stop sign violations slide. these people werent hungry.
Before making a discission on someones life or dictating the law you better know what the full story is and not be above the law yourself.

Not everyone that poaches is doing it for food some people like to do it for the so called fun in it, well I would personally hang their butts out to dry if given the opportunity.

[Mikey]

AC I gotta be honest ... I really dont think that you have a firm grasp upon reality in Alberta ....

Yes everyone can work alberta ... most of the population actually have 2 jobs (or more) But still most cannot afford basic power/ heat a place to live and food...Also Alberta may be the promised land ...but with the largest population of homelessness in Canda... theres a reason for that ...One of the main reasons why I moved away was the fact that we were just barely holding our heads above water finacially ... I had a good full time job, so did my wife ... still we were falling behind .... when a 2 bedroom house is commonly rented for 1400/month. Town(waste collectionetc..) payments were over 100/month...Gas payments were more than I paying now ... And Alberta is the place where the Nat gas came from...... ... theres alot of people at the food bank ...and their stocks are only as big as whats donated to them .... and really ... no one seems to think about donations untill christmas time ... what about the other 360 days ????
You can go to the food bank all you want ...if there aint anything there ...your boy is still hungry,


Now that said ... ganted I pay 7% more (prov sales tax) but I make 4 dollars an hour more doing the same job.... My wife makes 11 dollars more doing the same job .... My morgage is less than my rent for a bigger place, my City bill is 236 dollars every 6 months for automated Garbage collection and water services and my utilities (gas electricity) are about 15% cheaper than what I was paying in Alberta. Groceries are the same price and Gasoline here in PG as of today is 1.03 .... I dunno what that is in Calgary right now .

I may be paying 7% more for stuff ... But I make 19% more/hour ...my wife makes 84% per hour more and we pay less in bills .....

Lots of jobs in AB but the pay sucks ...and the cost of living is stupid if you never bought your place more than 6 years ago.

My house in Cochrane I coulda bought in 2003 for 180(1000 total sq foot 2 bed 4 level split that was falling apart on a postage stamp lot) .... when I moved away the owners sold it for a hair over 300 sight unseen .... I bought my place now in 2006 for $140 (1100 rancher 3 bed on over 1/3 acre)

Do I miss Alberta ... Yes ... Do I miss the Finacial hardache ... Not a fricken Chance...Would I personally needed to Poach a deer to feed my Family ... Probally not .... But I understand that I was better off than most of the population of Alberta

[scooter]

I haven't chimed in on this...I'd get AC to shoot it for me :laugh:

[Mikey]

I haven't chimed in on this...I'd get AC to shoot it for me :laugh:

I think we should just shoot AC ... he's big ... us poor folk could live off him fer a long time :lol:

[dropzone]

Hey Mickey.

I dont think there is an open season on his species. Make the first shot count or he will call ya in for poaching. :lol:

I have known AC for awhile and I dont think he would be good chewing. :throwup:

[acearchery]

I would be poor eating.... full of poop!....

Shooting me would be murder.... would you report it?

and Mikey.... I am making it so far with one income.... in Alberta.... I bout my plac 2.5 years ago.... You know there was opportunity for me..... but it would have passed me by if I did not get of my butt and work for it!..... But I had to change careers from one I loved to one that would feed a family!.....

I believe it all comes down to choices and there are unfortunate things.....

Now I had a friend that realised he made a mistake.... (shot a doe instead of a legal buck)..... It was unintentional.... but was still preventable... make very sure of background befor you shoot..... and was on wrong piece of land so he was trespassing.....

He went and spoke with landowner who called police for trespassing.... when policeman arrived he also admitted to the shooting of the doe.... he dressed it out... and policeman donated to a family....

After reviewing the situation the landowner decided not to press charges and policeman analysed the situation and decided that it was a gross error and not a crime.....

But it was system that made decision.... like the MP being lenient on speeding.... or stop signs..... but what if you were on scene next day of same vehicle in an accident where a family was impacted.... and maybe enforcement was necessary

Again if I saw someone poaching the chances of them really needing it for food is very small. So I would report them and let system decide......

Now I will post two polls!....

[russ]

I would be poor eating.... full of poop!....

Shooting me would be murder.... would you report it?

and Mikey.... I am making it so far with one income.... in Alberta.... I bout my plac 2.5 years ago.... You know there was opportunity for me..... but it would have passed me by if I did not get of my butt and work for it!..... But I had to change careers from one I loved to one that would feed a family!.....

I believe it all comes down to choices and there are unfortunate things.....

Now I had a friend that realised he made a mistake.... (shot a doe instead of a legal buck)..... It was unintentional.... but was still preventable... make very sure of background befor you shoot..... and was on wrong piece of land so he was trespassing.....

He went and spoke with landowner who called police for trespassing.... when policeman arrived he also admitted to the shooting of the doe.... he dressed it out... and policeman donated to a family....

After reviewing the situation the landowner decided not to press charges and policeman analysed the situation and decided that it was a gross error and not a crime.....

But it was system that made decision.... like the MP being lenient on speeding.... or stop signs..... but what if you were on scene next day of same vehicle in an accident where a family was impacted.... and maybe enforcement was necessary

Again if I saw someone poaching the chances of them really needing it for food is very small. So I would report them and let system decide......

Now I will post two polls!....

That guy should have been charged. Wrong land, wrong sex - how much more did he need to screw up. And then you want to throw someone in jail for feeding their own family.

You sir, are an enigma!

[Mikey]

enigma??? I was thinkin enema

[Mikey]

and Mikey.... I am making it so far with one income.... in Alberta.... I bout my plac 2.5 years ago.... You know there was opportunity for me..... but it would have passed me by if I did not get of my butt and work for it!..... But I had to change careers from one I loved to one that would feed a family!.....

!....
Good for you Allan

heres a hero Cookie for you

http://doubletree.hilton.com/en/dt/media/images/brand/New-Hero-Cookie-small.jpg

Number 1 you are a Minority .... and you got lucky ...But lets compare your house shall we what would your house cost in Calgary area? what would your house cost in ft mac,

whats the Job market really like in your neighborhood. what could you sell your house today for compared to what you paid fer it.

Honestly I think that I am luckier than you .... I am doing something that I love and feeding my family ...you are feeding yes ...but doing a job that you dont love ....

Wages in Alberta suck ...plain and simple ...the min wage is 2nd lowest in Canada next to nfld . Not everyone can be a safety dofukallogist ...someone needs to flip that triple cheese burger that you order ....sadly ...flippin burgers does not pay bills anymore, but in reality there are very little programs to help people out of that hole ...yes lots of schooling ...but how does the bills get paid when yer at school .... I went to school ... and the only reason why i didnt starve cause i was flippin burgers .... back in the day when rent was 400 a month .... now rents are typically over 1000 and burger flippers make less than 1600/month before taxes (1600 /month is based on 10 buck an hour) factor in food, power / heat if not electric, transportation(bus pass, gas ins etc...) ..... pretty poor livin ...those people are usually playin the wheel of bills each month.

[acearchery]

Russ,

How am I an enigma....This guy was reported.... he admitted his wrongdoing... justice system made its choice.... If I saw him i would have reported him too..This guy told me about it after it was all done.......What happens after reportng is not my concern!......unless I am called as a witness!....

Mikey.....You sarcastic SOB......You gave me wrong title....... and I do love my job... it is different than what I originally went to university for !.... All I was saying is that Alberta is not as bad as you make it out to be.... You have to work hard (or smart) to make it here... but if you do you do well!.... If a better opportunity comes along and a person is willing to move...(like you) That is just as good!.... You must misaspects of cochrane.... but PG has its own rewards!....

As to who is luckier.... who cares what matters is if you are happy with you and me happy with meand we get out and shoot some bows and arrows!.... Right...

You may be luckier!... But I have more of your crispies!..... So you admit it was not luck!....

[acearchery]

Now back to original thread....

HOW WOULD YOU RECOGNISE AN "HONEST" POACHER?

[Travski]

look at his hands and his eyes you can tell someone who is working his A$$ off and trying to make a go of it

[crazy_davey]

Wow, haven't checked out the Bowzone in a while. Too busy working and hunting.

acarcher, you are about the most ignorant person I have ever had the pleasure of reading on the net, and yes, I read every one of your posts on this subject.

I seriously hope you get cancer and can no longer work. I hope your bank account runs dry after selling your belongings and your family starves to death because you are too stupid and ignorant to feed them.

I know that you are going to ask so I will answer first. I do know two families who sustenance hunt. They feed thier families from the meet that is killed during hunting season because they can not afford to feed them without. They do just fine in doing so as well. But, if something happened to one of those family members that provides the meat during hunting season and they could not provide meat for thier family that year, yes, I would help them as best I could. I would not stop them or turn them in for killing a doe to feed the members of that family. Anyone that would should be shot and thrown to the wolves.

Get of your high horse you ignorant prick! There are people in this country that try very hard, but because of medical or other reasons that are none of your business, they can't provide for thier families the way you and I can. Just because you do not know anyone in this particular situation does not mean that it isn't happening.

Take care guys and gals! I might not be around for a while :wink:

[acearchery]

They feed thier families from the meet that is killed during hunting season



CD thanks for the personal attack!.... Fiunny how you can have such an opinion Last time I looked the above was not illegal!...

If you are to sick to work..... but not too sick to shoot an animal, gut it, skin it, hang it, cut it up, and freeze it...

I may be an "ignorant prick".... But I am not stupid :wink:

Oh and wolves.... Love them too!.....:boohoo:

Take a chill pill!....

[crazy_davey]

But I am not stupid :wink:



I disagree.

[dropzone]

I have a question, If someone was poaching a deer and they really needed it to provide meat for a family of 5 and the poacher has a job working at minimal wage trying to put braces on one of his childs teeth, trying to put together enough money for his childrens post secondary education so they wont be in the same boat that he is in now and you reported them would you really be helping the family in any way?
I know their was someone on a related post that stated they would report a poacher. Well good luck with that. Know who your srewing before you do it. Talk to them maybe and find out what is going on. Every situation is different.

[acearchery]

All I am saying is that if I saw someonw poaching I would report them... It is not up to me to judge whether or not it is appropriate!.....

What do you expect me to do... go up to the poacher and ask if he really needs to do that before I dedcide to report him....

Hey I am fair game... If you saw me poach I wopuld hope you would report me.... Whether or not I needed to do it to feed my family!.... Because If I am stupid enought to do it and get caught... ideserve to be reported!....

Fair is Fair.... Do unto others as you would have them do unto you...

Go ahead and report me... If you see me....

Is that a high horse?... I think it is fair!.....

Anyways this has gone around enough for me... and I feel I am fair...

besides as I stated before there is the odd case where a person may feel they have a valid reason to poach.... but it would be a very rare situation!..... I think we agree on that...

If I see a poacher... I will report them period!......

If you have integrity nothing else matters.... If you don't.... nothing else matters!.....

KMA CD

[dropzone]

AC,

When I lived in wildwood there were few people that poached. Some needed to and others that were sick enough to do it for no reason.
I new the difference in the 2 types as I took the time to find out what was going on.
Granted there were total strangers that have done it and were reported but it wasnt hard to figure out that they were looking for trophies.
Now if I seen you poach an animal for the purpose of food for your family, I would NOT report it. I have compassion for the needy.
Before retirement I have asked 2 poachers when I caught them if they were that hungry. One did say yes, I told him to sell his 50,000 dollar truck and to put his quad up for sale as I was putting his handcuffs on him. To believe his story would be like giving a street person money for playing a Gibson guitar.

I guess what I'm saying is take time to know what is going on before making a discission on their life.

[crazy_davey]

AC,

When I lived in wildwood there were few people that poached. Some needed to and others that were sick enough to do it for no reason.
I new the difference in the 2 types as I took the time to find out what was going on.
Granted there were total strangers that have done it and were reported but it wasnt hard to figure out that they were looking for trophies.
Now if I seen you poach an animal for the purpose of food for your family, I would NOT report it. I have compassion for the needy.
Before retirement I have asked 2 poachers when I caught them if they were that hungry. One did say yes, I told him to sell his 50,000 dollar truck and to put his quad up for sale as I was putting his handcuffs on him. To believe his story would be like giving a street person money for playing a Gibson guitar.

I guess what I'm saying is take time to know what is going on before making a discission on their life.

Compassion is very rare these days. The world would be a better place if some folks understood what compassion actually meant.

Compassion is best described as an understanding of the emotional state of another; not to be confused with empathy. Compassion is often combined with a desire to alleviate or reduce the suffering of another; to show special kindness to those who suffer. Compassion may lead one to feel empathy with another person. Compassion is often characterized through actions, wherein a person acting with compassion will seek to aid those they feel compassionate for.

Compassionate acts are generally considered those which take into account the pain of others and attempt to alleviate that pain. In this sense, the various forms of the Golden Rule are in part based on the concept of compassion, if also on the concept of empathy.

Aside from a chemical or physiological cause, people can lack compassion if their own pain (whether physical or mental) is so great that the need to alleviate their pain blocks them from recognizing or acknowledging the pain of others - unless they recognize that pain as being similar to their own.

Compassion differs from other forms of helpful or humane behavior in that its focus is primarily on the alleviation of pain and suffering. Acts of kindness which seek primarily to confer benefit rather than relieve existing pain and suffering are better classified as acts of altruism, although, in this sense, compassion itself can be seen as a subset of altruism, it being defined as the type of behavior which seeks to benefit others by reducing their suffering.

This would best describe acarcher:

Aside from a chemical or physiological cause, people can lack compassion if their own mental pain is so great that the need to alleviate their pain blocks them from recognizing or acknowledging the pain of others.

[acearchery]

CD you have no idea do you!....

You read a few posts and make some assumptions about me, my charactar and wish something upon me and my family that I or any other person with any amount of compassion! would not wish on anybody then come across and accuse me of having no compassion, and being on a high horse.... Then get up on your own high horse and make judgements! That are wrong!

CD You sir are a hypocrite!

DZ.... so if I reported them because they are doing something illegal..... and you came along as an officer and decided they fell in the "needy" class.... and you took your appropriatte action

Would this then not also provide an opportunity for recognising a problem?

It would have been so easy to say no I would not report a person for poaching but looking at it from what i would really do and the context in which I have reported poachers....

I see someone shoot a doe out of season.... To be politically correct I would have to make 2 decisions:
1) Do I know them?
2) Do they need to do this to feed their family

Looking at the context what are the chances that people I know would be poachers.... I hope slim!

Of the people I know and all poachers in general how many really need to poach? very slim...

So looking at the probabilities if I saw someone poach.... The chances are greater then 99% that they need to be reported..... So I would report....

If they are in the 1% that need to poach!.... I hope they meet someone like DZ.....

It is kind of like the argument do you hang one innocent man in order to ensure justice? or let 100 guilty go free to protect the one.... This is a moral dilemma....

But let us look at worst case scenaio of both options:....I report someone that needs to poach.... they meet an officer and most fish and wildlife officers are pretty reasonable... They can make the decision.... worst case scenario guy ends up in jail.... he is still alive... It is a consequence of choosing to break the law.... This deters others and hopefully makes others not take the laws for our common guide likely....

Or we have someone that I decide not to report because I want to make sure we don't put a guy feeding his family in jail.... and let a poacher go who will do it again... ruining our opportunitis and break the law with impunity....

So both scenarios are there.... When i remove all emotion from the problem and look at probabilities... The chances are 99 to 1 that I by reporting a poacher I am doing the politcall right thing!.....

Now!..... I also look at the context of "what measure ye mete may it so be measured to you"... If I am poaching REPORT ME!...... regardless if you think I need to or not...

I like blak and white.... remove the gray..... It is against the law and we actually have a duty under the law to report instances of breaking the law or else we are aiding and abetting..... Which some people here have admitted they would do.... that is their personal choice!...and opinion... i don't go after them saying they are law breaking poachers.....

No I accept their decision and am being honest and up front.... If I see Poaching i will report it.... End of story!.......

Now to end with a true story!.....

I was helping my roommate replace engine in his truck when I was in school for wildlife biology.... planning to become a game biologist.... On the Saturday evening there is a field full of deer and we go out after dark to see what is there as we did Friday night... I am in passenger side of truck looking across field with spotlight and binos.... to identify abig buck.... My room-mates Da asks id I See one... I say the second one from right is a bu...... BOOM!..... Deer is down... I nearly messed myself.....and his truck.....

How do you think I felt?..... I had no intention of shooting...... Did not see him get out with gun... after all night befor he used binos and when I felt truck move I thought he was getting out to use the binos!....

I was unintentionally aiding and abetting.... Did we eat the deer.... YES!.... did we need to do this after dark.... (hunting season was open).... NO!......

Did I report this case..... No! but I certainly never went out with them again... even to look at animals!...

Poaching is illegal.....

I have never said that people doing it to feed their family was wrong!....It is still poaching!...

What I did say was that if I SAW someone poaching I would report it. Period... I feel It is not up to me to make the decision abut right or wrong..... and the chances of me seeing an "honest" poacher is extremely slim.

I do see your point just using the info and making a call based on fact and probabilities ungoverned by emotion!

I am far from perfect... and when I make emotion governed decisions... it is even worse!...


I guess what I'm saying is take time to know what is going on before making a discission on their life.

If I do not know or have the opportunity... nor do I feel is it my responsibility to know....

If I see an illegal action I act accordingly!... besides they made the decision to act illegally!... I figure they are willing to embrace the consequences!...

[acearchery]

Just so you all know... I do know people in unfortunate circumstances.....

They do not need to poach because they have friends that care and share!.....

and they know that if I will help them... if they choose to steal or poach... I will report them and have them understand the consequences of their actions!....

I am not one of those parents who if their kid does something wrong that they get sheltered from consequences!.....

[trenh]

I think this conversation has gone a little past where it should have gone... :sos:

[acearchery]

Probably... But it made for a lively discussion!...

[dropzone]

I think this conversation has gone a little past where it should have gone... :sos:


I agree, enough said before it becomes open season on AC.

[dropzone]

[

No I accept their decision and am being honest and up front.... If I see Poaching i will report it.... End of story!.......

Now to end with a true story!.....

I was helping my roommate replace engine in his truck when I was in school for wildlife biology.... planning to become a game biologist.... On the Saturday evening there is a field full of deer and we go out after dark to see what is there as we did Friday night... I am in passenger side of truck looking across field with spotlight and binos.... to identify abig buck.... My room-mates Da asks id I See one... I say the second one from right is a bu...... BOOM!..... Deer is down... I nearly messed myself.....and his truck.....

How do you think I felt?..... I had no intention of shooting...... Did not see him get out with gun... after all night befor he used binos and when I felt truck move I thought he was getting out to use the binos!....

I was unintentionally aiding and abetting.... Did we eat the deer.... YES!.... did we need to do this after dark.... (hunting season was open).... NO!......

Did I report this case..... No! but I certainly never went out with them again... even to look at animals!...

Poaching is illegal.....


AC,

You preach to us then write this. Think about your message that you are trying to get accross. You are correct in saying that POACHING IS ILLEGAL but you sum up with contradiction to your case. When I was MP and found statements as such, Known that there was probally a rifle in the TRUCK not many places to hide a rifle in a truck you my freind are quilty of above crime. So what your saying is that you knew of an incident and chose not to report it and probally had a chance to stop it and fallowed up with eating said crime. You are quilty of the crime that you feel there is no grey in.

Now to properly redeem your sour soul TURN YOURSELF IN. :tongue:

Iknow this has gone on long enough and should be put to bed. Everyone has their own thought on this and we all feel we are correct but lets enjoy fellowship in archery and not argue over each other thoughts.

I'm done with this. It was fun though making AC mad at me. :sos:

AC, YOUR WRONG YOUR WRONG YOUR WRONG :nutkick:

[acearchery]

If someone else would have seen it.... I should have been reported.....If I saw someone else do it.... i would have reported it!.....


But what I did was not illegal till someone else pulled the trigger!.....The difference between crime and wrong doing is intent.....What I did was wrong..... but not a crime.......I had no intent!...Poaching is a "mens rea" offence!....but pretty hard for me to not prove intent.....!.... A jury would have to buy it!.....and if I was on jury... I would not buy it!....
So while I am guilty...... I knew there was gun in the truck as we were out earlier that day... but I did notknow it was going to be used!....

It helps me also realise everyone is human!.....and makes me be very cautious about hunting partners!..... and also makes me ensure I do not do something to get a hunting partner in trouble!....

I am ver open and honest in what I do and say!.... I do not mean to be preachy but in the end I hope that if a needy friend decides to poach a deer thereby doing something illegal.... That they would come to me first and ask for help..... If they do this because they think I will report them, perhaps I can help them not make a bad decision!.... by providing an alternative.... Does that make sense!?

Would I really report them..... Hmmmmm!..... I say I will.....but would I.........I will leave you guessing!....

[crazy_davey]

Now to end with a true story!.....

I was helping my roommate replace engine in his truck when I was in school for wildlife biology.... planning to become a game biologist.... On the Saturday evening there is a field full of deer and we go out after dark to see what is there as we did Friday night... I am in passenger side of truck looking across field with spotlight and binos.... to identify abig buck.... My room-mates Da asks id I See one... I say the second one from right is a bu...... BOOM!..... Deer is down... I nearly messed myself.....and his truck.....

How do you think I felt?..... I had no intention of shooting...... Did not see him get out with gun... after all night befor he used binos and when I felt truck move I thought he was getting out to use the binos!....

I was unintentionally aiding and abetting.... Did we eat the deer.... YES!.... did we need to do this after dark.... (hunting season was open).... NO!......

Did I report this case..... No! but I certainly never went out with them again... even to look at animals!...

Poaching is illegal.....

Acarcher, 7 pages of your bullsh!t and then you post a story like this :angry_mad.

What I did say was that if I SAW someone poaching I would report it. Period...

You saw someone poaching and for a big buck as well! He was with you, you witnessed it but yet did not report it, PERIOD!

And you call me a hypocrite :rolleyes:. You make me sick :throwup:

[crazy_davey]

If someone else would have seen it.... I should have been reported.....If I saw it.... i would have reported it!.....

You did see it, you were in the same truck as the shooter yet you did not report it!

Did we eat the deer.... YES!.... did we need to do this after dark.... (hunting season was open).... NO!......

And then you ate the deer with him! You probably helped him load it and cut it up if you helped him eat it. Christ man, you are just as much as a poacher as your old buddy. And don't try and tell us that he did it to feed his family because they were needy, he could afford to replace the engine in his truck.

Your above story just proves how truly ignorant you are.

[ganonymous]

I did not read this entire thread as of yet.....but here is what I learnt a guy I was learnng poached I seperated from him and will not go with him again.......thats end of story he is still an associate of sorts but I let him know every time i see him that he is wrong. I hate the fact people poach as a purpose of sport. I wont poach because i wont waste my privelages on a killing contrary to wrong.

I am a counselor and make crap money and have kids and an EX wife......always struggling financially, even hard to go hunting on my crap wage........If I ever lost my job and had no meat your darned tootin I would not feel guilty about filling my freezer......If someone reported me for it I would be ****ed.

Our laws are there for a reason but the trouble with legal boundaries is you can not blanket rightfully every citizen that is why our investigating sources ussually have the option of discretion....

so all in all poaching is wrong and sick.....I do not consider your feeding yourself contrary to legal standards as poaching. The world I live in is no longer black and white to that extreme.

[winterwolf]

:sunnyy5:
I hope by posting an opinion I wont be hounded, but you know in your heart if you need...
or just want some gooooooood meat, I wouldn't hesitate if the situation was determined necessary. And agree ,would have a clear concience(and a full belly).And yes ;God would forgive me for it:sure_ok:

[acearchery]

Aptly Named registrant...

You want meat you can poach!.....

We are talking about need..... you poacher!....

[WOOKIE]

Wow. I just read through this thread for the first time and all I can say is I am sure glad that the crowd I run with generally have their feet firmly planted in reality.

I am closing this thread because it is going to lead to more ****storm.

We are very lenient here on Bowzone and I have never closed a thread in 6 years for anything other than spam. It is sad that some members cannot think before they type.