Target Arrows

[TEAM PSE]

Hey, quick couple of questions. My fatboy 400's that I have now have very little over hang on the rest when at full draw, maybe a half an inch. I am getting new fatboy 400's for indoor target as I am almost out of them from out door 3D's lol. Is it wise to mabey make my arrows an inch or two longer and go with a heavier tip than the 80 grain? If so how heavy should I go. I am also debating which fletch to use for indoor. Any good suggestions? I know my fatboy is fairly heavy with the unibushings and the accunocks and the 80 grain tips but is it ok to go heavier for a target arrow. What is a suitable arrow and tip weight? Also is there is an advantage with aluminum over carbon for indoor? What is the difference between the easton COBALT and the ECLIPSE, just colour?

Thanks :hump:

[acearchery]

For 3D.... fat carbon;s some people use for fast light line cutters...

Personally i will not ever use again....

For indoor target I use aluminums (more consitant on spine) 2315 is biggest one can go for FITA!....and you can straighten them to perfection!..

I use 2314's and use proper weight and lenghth to spine them, node tune them to figure out rest overhang and lower poundage to about 57#'s and accurate slower arrow is better than a fast miss!.......

For fletches you want fast stabilisation.... Feathers!....

Of course what mathewsarcher says I would go with!....

Cobalt and eclipse... the only difference is the superswage profile..... and color both are very similar!....

In order to get the package together one needs to know what the bow charactaristics and shooter charactaritics are..... I have a good idea on my A7 what works....

[Mikey]

for 3D I shoot 500 lightspeeds with 100 grain glue in points/uni bushings and G-nocks with 1.5" flex fletch vanes. Seems to work for me. In fact Now I am shooting the same set up for indoor Fita ... I can pull that 51# Trykon all day long

[TEAM PSE]

Thanks guys. I was still wondering though why is the hangover preferred for a target arrow and what advantage does it give you. How much should it hangover like and inch or three inches?

[acearchery]

Griv's video talks about node tuning....

An arrow ascillates in response to the energy adding on the back and the flexion. The arrow makes a sine wave and the idea of the hang over is so that the rest is sitting on a node.

In most cases the archer's imperfections are much greater than the imperfection caused by an arrow off of the node.

Take your arrow.... rest the shaft against an edge... hold the nock and pluck the arrow like a guitar string... move the shaft forward and back until the shaft no longer jumps off of the edge... that is the node... this will always be a constant proportionate distance distance back from the point. Because you have found the frequency of the arrow which is determined by materuail, configuration, and length!....

Think of a guitar string... if it is wider it oscillates at a different frequency(different size).... if it is tighter (more tip weight)... different frequency..... it is longer... different... think ukelele vs. bass guitar!... you get the idea?....

Funny how both can be "tuned"... and if a guitar sounds like a bass viola... it is out of tune... That is why there is a lot ofeffort tunig arrows to the bow!....

[TEAM PSE]

Wow, awsome informaton thanks!!!

[HOYTarcher]

I wouldn't even consider shooting Fatboys again for indoor target, been there done that, scores were not quite as high. Although I have tried some Goldtip large diameter shafts that are working fairly well, we'll see how they work over time(30x for Vegas).

I agree with AC :ph34r: I think the 2315 aluminum (or other Easton Aluminum) is still the best target shaft out there. I like mine loaded up with at least 140 grain points and inserts to help break down the spine. Many leave the shaft overhanging the rest by quite a bit to help break the spine down. The 2315 is a fairly heavy shaft and for target you are restricted to less than 60#s. By adding heavy points and keeping the shaft long you can still get them to spine out properly.

I also like feathers on my indoor setup, I find them to be a bit more forgiving and I think they stablize the arrow faster.

[acearchery]

Thanks MA!....

In all honesty... my cxl 2's are nothing more than expensive tomato plant stakes now!....

Good to 40 yards.... i would use them for hunter class 3D.... not much more.....

I am finding that with my new 3D arrows... i do not have to worry about lines.... point them at middle.... they are in middle!.....

First decision with arrow is purpose!.....
3 criteria
1) spine... 100 %critical..... do not sacrifice this for anything!.... however you can us tip weight and arrow length to adjust

The other 2 variables
2) Shaft size (wind or line cutter)
3) Weight..... Trajectory....vs Forgiveness
4) FOC... more is more forgiving....and helps cut wind
5) material:.... carbon or aluminum... carbon is consitant on weight and will not bend..... aluminum is consistant on spine and can be straitened.... Mixture of two (ACC's navigators' or ACE's is best!)

Indoor....FITA
No wind... Linecutter
Weight.... heavier is more forgiving....usually
So here I use a 2314 Easton x7 to get spine.... 120 grain tip 40 grin insert..... big feathers.... 57 lbs and about 230 fps for forgiveness.... FOC is about 9% not as critical on short shots...

Outdoor 3D......Speed and wind but also balance with accuracy...
So I use an ACE 400 at 29.5 inches to get my spine at 63 lbs. 330grains with 100 grain points foc is about 9%.... this shaft gets me max speed and forgiveness with proper spine.... 312 fps!....... and will still work for FITA....

My old arrow PSE 200 Comp Pro.... or Carbon Express Maxima 250 was spined good 330 grains but FOC was about 5% (light point weight) with pure carbon arrow and flew pretty good!..... my new ones.. better!.....

Indoor 3D I used CXL 2's at 310 grains 60lbs on bow... spined good... FOC was about 4%.. and beyond 40 they wobbled and dropped like a rock!.... I will never use them again....

there is a lot to arrow voodoo!.....and sometime on may cry at price of arrows but a very wise man asked me.... what part of your $2500 setup is in the target!...... why cheap out on arrows!.....

For hunting I use Carbon Express 3D selects........ 85 grain Montec.... and I test every single arrow and then re-sharpen before it goes into my quiver.... When it comes to arrows I am very picky and always have been....

With Longbow I use a heavy arrow and a heavy point (250 grains up front) full length to get spine, FOC improved and Penetration...... The arrow there is not as expensive.... but then my accuracy with longbow is not where a tighter tolerance arrow would make a diffrence!... and I adjust my max yards for hunting accordingly!....

Long post but this is a deep topic...... If you want advce on what arrows to use.... I have given you some guidleines to think about.... But most critical is....

Dynamic sSpine!..... think of it this way the arrow flexes in bow with resiastance being the tip weight..
Static factory spine is whee they measure arrow deflection by placing wight on center of shaft with fulcrums 28" apart and measuring deflection in inches.... eg a fatboy 400 flexes .400 inches!... This "Static Spine" is what is used in arrow charts...

You can change dynamic spine easily by!....

More Tip weight = more flex = Weaker spine!..... (less stiff)
Shorten arrow= less flex= stronger spine (stiffer)
Adding back weight to arrow... this adds weight to string decreasing speed without affecting flex directly but because bow string is slower less force is applied so arrrow acts stiffer..... there are lots of other things one can do and the playing never stops....

If arrow did nor flex it would not "soak up" energy in acceleration phase.....

One other thing is arrow is propelled but also locomotes with sigmoidal oscillation like a fish..... go to beiter website and view highspeed videos of arrows in all stages of flight including termination!.... Now the oscillataion is not yaw or pitch.... think again of a fish.... even though it's body oscillates it can swim in a straight line..... and head/body and tail will all pass through the same dimensional space!..... which is why even with arrow oscillation you can get a bullet hole through paper!....

Arrow ballistics is still being studied and a lot of what we have learned about ballistics comes from fireams where shock waves have an impact. An arrow is subsonic so it has different rules of physics as it is moving through a medium.... not drilling a hole in it!...

Shot an arrow into water.... no displacement bubble..... drop a rock into water.... displacement bubble unless it is aerodynamic...ie what we used to call a deadman!....

Bullet goes through airlike a rock into water.... part of the noice is the displacement bubble creating a shock wave!.....

Anyways I hope this ramble helps a bit to visualise the "flight of the arrow"

[TEAM PSE]

Hey maybe I'll try those cxl's 30x's for Vegas next year!!!. What was the Vegas shoot like?

[Snipe Show]

Hey "acarcher". Would the ACCUNOCK's make node tuning any easier? Would they also make a difference with arrow length and weight? :wacko:

[acearchery]

I have not used accu nocks but would make little or no difference to node tuning.... shaft length and tip weight make the difference in m experience...

[Snipe Show]

Thanks! :wink: