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scooter
07-28-2005, 01:19 PM
Here's the latest from the ABA on the Interim Métis Harvest Agreement.

Have a read......



Interim Métis Harvest Agreement -

MLA Committee Consultation

Alberta Bowhunters Association Presentation

________________________________________________





Date: July 14, 2005

Location: Legislature Building, Edmonton, Alberta

MLA Committee on IMHA: Mr. Denis Ducharme, Mr.Neil Brown and Mr. Frank Oberle

Presenters: RykVisscher, Darryl Kublik, Dale Johnson



Key Points:



v Alberta Entitlements

The Alberta Bowhunters Association fully supports the harvesting of wildlife and fish on Métis Settlements within Alberta as they have had the privilege of for many years.

However, we fail to understand how the Government of Alberta has gone significantly beyond the “Powley” case in entitling the whole of the province to be considered Métis Lands.

No other province in Canada has provided these entitlements. Even the Ontario agreement, which was signed just months before the IMHA, did not entitle Métis to hunt within their entire province nor for anything other than food. Instead, the Ontario agreement specifies that all harvesters must be licensed, monitored, and the animals registered. To hunt for food is the privilege that has been granted, and now the Alberta interpretation includes cultural, traditional, spiritual, harvesting. This interpretation allows an eagle or a whooping crane to be hunted for a feather as “subsistence.” There have been nine rams registered (how many have not been registered cannot be known) by Métis since August, 2004. There have also been two cougars registered as subsistence hunting.



v Recreational Hunters:

Recreational Hunters in this province are proud to be conservationists, and to be counted and to participate in effective wildlife management by registering animals, and providing harvest information for annual SRD – Fish and Wildlife surveys. All hunters are counted, and especially bowhunters in Alberta are counted by purchasing a Bowhunting permit, which is primarily just to allow the Wildlife managers to know exactly how many bowhunters there are in the province. No other province can accurately state how many bowhunters they have, which makes things more difficult for wildlife managers. The Alberta Bowhunters Association instituted this requirement decades ago, with all monies from the purchase of a Bowhunting permit being directed into Wildlife Conservation programs.

We ask that Métis obtain a permit or license, even at no cost, but it would allow Wildlife Managers to know how many Métis hunters we have.

Unfortunately for those Métis who choose to no longer purchase a recreational license, they will not be supporting wildlife management from the purchase of their licenses. This is a tremendous loss of funding that supports wildlife enhancement for all Albertans. Currently recreational hunters provide information to SRD – Fish and Wildlife about success rates, gender harvested, days in the field, equipment used, and Wildlife Management Units hunted.

We would like to see registration information provided by Métis which will allow wildlife managers to manage as required.

This would be a benefit to the Métis harvesters since proper wildlife management information and accurate allocation information allows wildlife managers to assess the impact of subsistence and recreational hunting in Wildlife Management Units.

A possible solution to aid in determining numbers for Métis harvesters is cross referencing the Name and Date of Birth, with the Wildlife Identification Number that was previously purchased by Métis persons who were recreational hunters.

This has been agreed to with a meeting between the Hunting for Tomorrow Foundation and the Métis Nation on January 19, 2005. It could be an avenue that SRD – Fish and Wildlife can use to aid Wildlife managers in determining past Métis harvesters numbers. Recreational hunters will be the first ones to lose opportunities to hunt, but we know conservation of wildlife is the most critical aspect and as conservation hunters, we are willing to lose some privileges for the betterment of Alberta’s wildlife.



v Not a Final Agreement

This agreement cannot be a final agreement.

The IMHA must remain a dynamic document that will be improved upon and strengthened over time. The initial information was that the Métis nation wanted to have this agreement finalized by September or October of 2005. Through positive consultation from the province and the Métis Associations, conservation issues and their resolutions can evolve through cooperation. We are concerned that a final agreement will hinder amendments as unforeseen issues arise in the future. Without a dynamic agreement, future issues and their resolutions could not be dealt with in a conservation-minded manner.

The agreement must always remain an interim agreement so that changes can be made as necessary.



v Public Education

In Alberta, we have the “Report A Poacher” program for all Albertan’s to report illegal hunting and fishing activities. Over 80% of calls received are from hunters and anglers. Recently members of the public have indicated that they did not report violations they saw, because the persons may have been Métis. We have concern that if the general public believes that a group can go unchecked, with regards to unlimited wildlife and fish harvesting, there could be hesitation on the part of the public to report all potential violations. This demonstrates the need for both the public and Métis to be better educated about Métis rights.

The Government and the Métis Nation must work diligently on education initiatives related to the roles and responsibilities regarding this agreement, for the betterment of all Albertans.



v Conservation Education

People are Conservationists by their actions, not their ancestry. We have a real concern with any new Métis hunters not taking mandatory conservation education courses to become a hunter as other new recreational hunters in Alberta must. This has safety and conservation implications. Similarly, currently many Métis are not aware that they still must purchase a fishing license and follow the regulations when angling with rod and reel, and unfortunately some of these people are being charged. Teaching youth and first time hunters proper safety, ethics, and training in proper techniques should not be neglected by the Métis Nation.

“Métis are conservationists and we have been for hundreds of years” is a statement without substance. All licensed hunters, such as ABA members, are true conservationists as well, but allow themselves to be licensed, monitored and adhere to annual regulations and limitations.



v Species of Concern

We ask that species of concern such as caribou, goats, grizzly bears, cougars, and bighorn sheep have conservation plans implemented with the Métis Nation.

To allow these species to be considered subsistence animals (when there are plenty of moose, deer, and elk) has conservation implications.

Agreements should be made between the Government and the Métis Nation with respect to species of concern, or conservation issues, such as spring closures through consultation. Charges cannot be laid for Métis hunting trophy rams as long as the meat isn’t wasted. Fish and Wildlife officers are very restricted in their ability to charge Métis for non-subsistence use.



v Métis Status and Responsibilities

We are aware that the Métis Nation has had to hire additional staff to deal with the increased Métis applications for “official status.” It concerns us that potentially hundreds or thousands of Métis persons are applying for the rights to subsistence hunting and fishing. These persons must be aware of their responsibilities in these opportunities, and must adhere to safety and conservation regulations. Citing from a March Hansard transcript, MLA Frank Oberle asked MLA Pearl Calahasen what was being done to ensure good conservation of wildlife; Pearl answered that “They waited a year to allow Métis hunting to ensure that structures were in place.” There are no structures in place to ensure good conservation practices by the Métis: no monitoring, no licensing, no registration, and no safety or hunter education.

Average licensed hunters are heavily monitored and support this action, while Métis hunt without restrictions.



v Stakeholder Input

This entire process is troublesome and the lack of stakeholder consultation is of concern.

We ask that increased stakeholder involvement be a critical component of future discussions regarding this agreement.



Contact information:



Mr. Brent Watson

President,

Alberta Bowhunters Association

10238 -110 Avenue

Grande Prairie, Alberta

T8V 1S7

e-mail: bcwatson@telusplanet.net

780.539.9811

Ruger
07-28-2005, 01:38 PM
Cheers to the ABA. In my opinion this document is very well written. All points are valid and presented in a very non-confrontational manner but direct and to the point. I do not see how these concerns could not be given deep consideration by all parties involved. Even the Metis nation should recognize the validity of these concerns/issues and act accordingly.

R

DBarr
07-28-2005, 05:47 PM
This whole Metis thing has been a real God send as far as APOS is concerned I'm sure.
They are flying under the cloak of the Metis now. They are the left hand that holds the coin, then they put the Metis in the right hand to redirect our attention from them.

By this I mean that a year ago everyone hated outfitting in Alberta, wanted it gone, did not agree with Non Resident Aliens coming in and shooting our wildlife. They where up in arms about outfitters buying up land from farmers so that the rest of us could not have a fair chance at permission. Now under the cloak of the Metis, we have forgotten about the outfitters, now they are free to work on changing other policies to benefit themselves while we focus on the Metis, an example would be the fight to change the leased land rules that keep the outfitters off. They want access to land that was put aside for recreational hunters. Once they get on there will be no place we can go with out their pressures, and dirty pool.

If you look at the three guys pushing this fight against the Metis forward, you get two out off three of them being outfitters Ryk Visscher with Ryk Visscher's hunting Adventures, and Dale Johnson with Bent Arrow Outfitters. The third, and most suitable to fight the Metis, is Darryl Kublik whom I can not find any connection with an outfitting company, as he is I believe the treasurer of the hunting for tomorrow foundation.

Apos is not your friend, they will fight to get you on their side to beat the Metis, but as soon as that happens, watch your back because they will be coming for your rights too..

They will fight for more allocations in zones, cutting down on the amount of resident tags, and they will fight for the right to commercial hunt in Grazing leases.

Minister Coutts, be sure to wipe APOS'S lip marks off your a$$ before you go home..

Huntingalberta
06-13-2006, 10:01 PM
This whole Metis thing has been a real God send as far as APOS is concerned I'm sure.
They are flying under the cloak of the Metis now. They are the left hand that holds the coin, then they put the Metis in the right hand to redirect our attention from them.

By this I mean that a year ago everyone hated outfitting in Alberta, wanted it gone, did not agree with Non Resident Aliens coming in and shooting our wildlife. They where up in arms about outfitters buying up land from farmers so that the rest of us could not have a fair chance at permission. Now under the cloak of the Metis, we have forgotten about the outfitters, now they are free to work on changing other policies to benefit themselves while we focus on the Metis, an example would be the fight to change the leased land rules that keep the outfitters off. They want access to land that was put aside for recreational hunters. Once they get on there will be no place we can go with out their pressures, and dirty pool.

If you look at the three guys pushing this fight against the Metis forward, you get two out off three of them being outfitters Ryk Visscher with Ryk Visscher's hunting Adventures, and Dale Johnson with Bent Arrow Outfitters. The third, and most suitable to fight the Metis, is Darryl Kublik whom I can not find any connection with an outfitting company, as he is I believe the treasurer of the hunting for tomorrow foundation.

Apos is not your friend, they will fight to get you on their side to beat the Metis, but as soon as that happens, watch your back because they will be coming for your rights too..

They will fight for more allocations in zones, cutting down on the amount of resident tags, and they will fight for the right to commercial hunt in Grazing leases.

Minister Coutts, be sure to wipe APOS'S lip marks off your a$$ before you go home..

:wtf: My friend you r an idiot just wonderin if anyone knows more of whats goin on with the metis thing :throwup:

scooter
06-14-2006, 07:03 AM
As far as I understand, there hasn't been any change to it but they're talking about changing it.

It needs to be abolished completely and never be spoken of again.

It's complete http://bzoutdoors.com/uploads/images/bull.jpg

acearchery
06-14-2006, 08:59 AM
Alberta has a set carrying capacity for game. In areas outside of parks part of the surplus is managed by conservation hunters. This surplus is managed through a system where we can estimate the surplus and measure the harvest through seasons, tags, allocations. and draws. --- managed harvesting plans..

--- resident and non-resident Hunters-- managed hunting

aboriginal and metis - unmanaged hunting.

ow the surplus is dependent on managed and unmanaged hunting. If this surplus is depleted we will only know the following spring when game counts are way down and all managed hunting will be shut down -- because there is management plans and legislation in place for this.

The IMHA has opened a huge can of worms, but there is also an opportunity here to put in a democratically selected process to manage this as well.

How:
By speaking up, making your voice heard by supporting the ABA, AFGA and APOS - united we stand...... I think we can all agree with the position paper now we have to go to our MLA's and let them know where we stand!

HOYTarcher
06-14-2006, 10:00 AM
I'd work with the Devil to have the IMHA changed and have no love for some of the outfitters in this province nor with APOS and its handling or lack there of of some of its members such as great white holdings. I have even had some heated conversations with Ryk Visscher before and during my time on the ABA executive, but to say Ryk is only out for himself and outfitting is completely wrong. As it is wrong to lump all outfitters together. I have had some very bad altercations with outfitters but also have to give some credit to the good ones. The ones who helped pull me out when stuck or pointed me in the right direction when bear hunting so we didn't end up crowding each other and working against each other, or the one who took half a day to help get my elk out of a pretty tight spot.

I'll also be the first one to crucify them when they are doing something wrong. See my posts on Great white, LLyod McMahon etc.

Ryk volunteered and spent more time promoting the sport of bow-hunting in this province than almost everyone else combine. Ryk has been an integral part of the ABA since its early days and without his hard work the ABA would not be what it is today. How he has managed to keep his role in APOS and the ABA seperate should be commended. Even if you don't always agree with Ryk, I know I don't, you can't argue his dedication to bowhunting, be it resident or non-resident, in Alberta.

Even if I'd like to see a Saskatchewan like outfitting industry (outfitters are restricted to the Northern half of the province - mostly crown) by working with APOS, ABA, AFGA the IMHA may end up as something we can all live with, including the metis, not the unregulated agreement we have today.

Mikey
06-14-2006, 10:06 AM
I have never been against sustenace hunting ...but the way the IMHA was written is what Scott says .... Bull sitting on a toilet

it needs to be changed .... drastically

If a metis ...or any other card carrying Native for that matter wants to hunt for Food for his family so be it .... But he or she must do it in the traditional fashion of "primitive weapons" By that ...no high power rifles ... no compound bows etc... unless the person holds the proper licence and is in season ..... and in My opinion ... Take Does ... theres more meat ... and is more nutritios that bucks anyway ....



I am a 3rd generation born Canadian and have the documents to prove it .... I cant go out and hunt anytime I want .... with any weapon I want .... what makes the Metis differant from me???? Metis by defination are decendants of France .....

guido
06-14-2006, 12:33 PM
I'd have to agree with DBARR. (if that makes me an idiot in huntingalberta's mind so be it). I use to be able to get access very easily on alot of prime hunting land. I still can, but only if I have a doe or cow tag. I guess they are saving the trophies for outfitters. I had nothing against outfitters before, but when they take my hunting opportunities away it ****es me off. The metis may take a few animals but at least I can hunt the areas also.

acearchery
06-14-2006, 12:56 PM
MA my thoughts exactly. There are many other hunters I do not agree with they at least follow principles of managed conservation. There are idiots in every facet of hunting.

Mikey!
"Metis by defination are decendants of France ....." ----Wrong!

Metis means Halfblood or half caste. I do not have French blood but I am Metis!

Canadian Metis have always had access to firearms. when the Metis movement started back in the day with Louis Riel Senior they had access to repeating firearms. How else could the Metis help almost exterminate the plains buffalo. --- so much for the argument bout Metis always being conservationists....."

Let's stay away from side issues or knee jerk reactions. We need to use reasonable arguments or else we all look like a bunch of redneck hillbillies who are mad because someone else got what we really want.

I have a Metis heritage and do not agree with improper management of wildlife under the guise of subsistance hunting.

I may not always be politically correct but this is a time and a place where we need to be.

When I phoned my MLA I stated my position reasonably as above. If I would have stated my opinion in an unreasonable manner liberally sprinkled with expletives I would have harmed our case.

"By working with APOS, ABA, AFGA the IMHA may end up as something we can all live with, including the metis, not the unregulated agreement we have today."

By the way how many people have ante'd up for ABA membership? They are doing something about this. They are forming alliances whereby we can create a win win situation through the only method available - the political route. The ABA needs our ironclad support because they are the voice for bowhunters in Alberta.

map101ca
06-19-2006, 04:11 PM
I made some comments....well actully alot of comments that are very relivent to this thread, but because I don't live in Alberta I posted them on the Ontario Metis thread over here: http://forum.bowzone.ca/showthread.php?p=24503#post24503

No offence was intended and respect all views on this matter.

Be gental... :286: